NewChurch
9201 N. Rockwell, Oklahoma City
Service Times: Sundays at 9:00am, 10:15am and 11:30am
Before I get started, I have a request to make:
Hey, NewChurch – could you please put some kind of sign or banner out front?
My church-hopping buddy and I drove right by, only noticing the “New Church Ave.” street sign as we were passing it.
NewChurch is very similar to some churches I’ve visited in the past – New Life, Journey Church and the like. Very casual, seemingly non-denominational, and with the same bland, vaguely creepy Christian contemporary music. To be fair, I’d been warned about the music by David over at Voyage Blog (who attends NewChurch), so I won’t spend a lot of time bitching about it. I just have to say that one song, in particular, cracked me up. I think it was called, “There’s Something About Jesus” and included the line, “like the fragrance after the rain.”
Besides being unfortunately reminded of Cameron Diaz’s infamous “hair gel” scene in a similarly-titled movie, I couldn’t help but wonder- does Jesus smell like ozone?
As with those other churches, I didn’t notice a whole lot of diversity, which is always a little disappointing. NewChurch seems to consist of an awful lot of white, middle-class folks. (Not that there’s anything wrong with white, middle-class folks, at least I hope there isn’t – I’m one, myself.) But I have to wonder how much can really be learned, how much intellectual and spiritual growth can really be attained, when everyone else looks like you and believes the same things as you. Where’s the challenge?
I suppose that’s why I don’t belong to a church (well, aside from the fact that I’m not religious in the least). Most seem a little too “clubby” for my taste.
I was also troubled by some of the announcements in the church bulletin, which seemed to reinforce gender stereotypes. There’s Monday Night Women’s Study (or a special group for moms and their kids under four, if you’d prefer) for the ladies, and Flag Football for the dudes. What if I wanted to play flag football? Surely I can’t be the only woman who would rather hang with the guys than make quilts or play with babies. Surely there are women at NewChurch who are more focused on their careers than on having kids, right? I can’t help but feel like there’s no place at a church like this for someone like me.
Then again, perhaps I’m simply making too many assumptions on the basis of a few announcements.
After a few more songs, there was a prayer, followed by a brief film that confused the hell out of me. A chiropractor told us about an incredibly unhealthy man, who after visiting all kinds of doctors to no avail, went to this chiropractor who somehow managed to cure him. (???) The unhealthy (now healthy) man went on to build a 34,000 square foot house, the largest in Texas. (???) A few years later, the man was killed during a robbery. The film then cut to an interview of an addict who told us about one strange day when his dealer gave him a bible that belonged to the addict’s dad. He said he got it during a robbery. The addict later lit up a joint and read through the Bible. (???)
That’s pretty much how the movie ended.
Did I miss something? What the hell was that all about? A magical chiropractor who succeeded where all other medical professionals had failed? A man who built a really big house? And are you telling me that the addict’s dealer killed the addict’s dad? And at some point during this crime, decided to take the victim’s Bible? And how did he know the victim was the father of one of his clients? And the client, after receiving his murdered father’s Bible, wasn’t fazed one bit, or even curious about how his dealer came into possession of said Bible? What happened to this addict, anyway? Did he just read through the Bible? Or did he find Jesus and suddenly become completely rehabilitated? Seriously – what is the message here?
You can imagine how much fun I am to watch movies with.
It did sort of tie into the sermon, though, which was about recovery. Since I’m going through a “recovery” of my own, of sorts – I found the topic timely and relevant, and I was curious to hear what would be said. A big part of the message seemed to be that we just need to turn all of our problems over to God and we’ll be okay. How nice that sounds, and I mean that in a non-snarky way. I almost wish that I could believe that, instead of feeling that it’s my responsibility to kick my bad habits and live a cleaner, healthier life. That can be an annoyingly heavy burden to carry around sometimes.
I will end by saying that it was very nice to finally meet David from Voyage Blog in person. Thank you for inviting me to your church, and I hope you can shed light on anything I may have misinterpreted.
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Jeff Shaw Said:
January 22, 2008 @ 12:46 pm
I wonder how many people were at that church? 2500? 1000?
Did they serve fraps and Biscotti?
davidbmc Said:
January 22, 2008 @ 7:55 pm
Thnak for visiting Sarah-it was nice meeting you and Elizabeth.
Misinterpretations?
Maybe just a few:
1. Diversity-there may not have been much in the third service you attended but we actually have a fairly representative diverse group compared to the neighborhood we are in. At first glance you might think, “Yeah, but thats a pretty white neighborhood!” But not really. You would need to see more of our our services probably though to get a full view of our diversity. Overall though I dont disagree with your point. It has often been said that Sunday morning is the most segregated time in America.
2. Announcements-I think our regular attenders would know they are welcome at these various events (ladies at football for example) but good point-our guests probably dont pick that up from the “advertising.”
3. For the record-I never said the music was creepy.
Just that it was of the CCM type that I know you dont like. (Not my all time favorite either.) Also for the record-and I didnt tell you on purpose, that was my brother singing the Sunday you were there. Our regular worship leader was out because they just had a baby. I was laughing at your comment about the lyrics though. I have thought alot about how the lyrics to christian songs sound to those not in on the “code” words.
Last-I am loving the recovery series because I am a fat fat fatty. It is an 8 week series so you only got in on 1 of 8 points. Yes, we need to turn our problems over to God, but we are definitely involved in the process. God didnt make me eat that cookie at lunch today. But I do find support to encourage me to do better through reading the bible, prayer and my friends.
For Jeff-I think between all three services, Newchurch runs around 1200-1500 people any given week. And just coffee and donuts.
Thanks for coming! and y’all come back now ya hear?!
Dana Said:
January 22, 2008 @ 8:33 pm
I think the movie was an illustration of how we never know what’s going to happen because of what we did in obedience–like the doctor giving that guy the Bible. God only knows if it helped him, but it obviously did something for his son. And God only knows where it will end up next…
Tommy Said:
January 22, 2008 @ 9:08 pm
Hey Sarah,
My name is Tommy Woodard. I am one of the pastors at newchurch. Unfortunately, I was out of town Sunday and didn’t get to meet you.
I really do appreciate your comments. Oh, don’t get me wrong. At first I got very defensive. I wanted to tell you how I thought you were just coming to find everything that could possibly be wrong with our church and that you were more judgmental than most Christians I know. However, after I re-read your comments I realized that they were really a great help to me.
You see, sometimes we get caught up in our own little bubble and forget to look at things from other people’s perspectives. Your experience at newchurch and your comments help me to see how things may be perceived. I can promise you that newchurch is quite possible the most imperfect church you will ever attend. We are just trying to use the Word of God to figure life out together. Sometimes we do a decent job and sometimes we fall flat on our face. We really are trying to do our best.
As a pastor at newchurch, it is okay with me if you don’t like the music, the videos, the message, or if there aren’t enough different people for your taste. However, I do hope that you felt welcomed and you could tell that above all else, we are doing our best to honor God in everything that we do. I hope you won’t rush to judgement about newchurch based on one visit. (Much like I almost did with just one read thru of your blog.) I hope you’ll come visit us again. I’d love to meet you.
Jennifer Ashford Said:
January 22, 2008 @ 10:44 pm
Hello Sarah!
I’m so glad you came to visit newchurch. I have been going there for years and it is certainly not perfect. I will never forget that my Mom’s first visit was on Super Bowl Sunday and somehow we failed to pray during the entire service!
Like you, like Dave, like many folks, I am going through my own sort of recovery and the fact that newchurch is willing to be honest about the fact that we all have our hang ups is one of the things I really love about the church. I love how real the people are inside those walls. I love that anyone can feel welcome there, please tell me you felt welcome there, and that love really does shine there.
I will never forget about a year ago in a small group study I was involved with, I shared about a neighbor who was going through a rough divorce. The mother of 4 had no money and her pantry was literally empty. I walked out of church that day with $75 cash, a “love box” (week’s supply of groceries), an offer from an attorney to represent her at no charge, and lots of prayer. The next week, I went back with even more cash. That was just in a small group of 15-20 people. No pastor was ever made aware of the situation. That was simply a group of people showing love to a total stranger. I love that about newchurch. People meeting one another’s needs.
I hope that someday you will come to trust that you do not have to kick your habit, hurt or hang-up yourself. I pray that someday you will be able to reach out and see the beauty that surrounds us and know that only a marvelous, loving God could have created such amazing wonder.
May God bless you.
Jennifer
Stacey Said:
January 23, 2008 @ 8:25 am
As a close friend of Sarah’s and a fellow church hopper (in an adjoining state), I am surprised by the feedback given from this church. This is the first I’ve seen of this type of response. I gather that Sarah was confused about the film shown and it’s relevance. From her blog, I am also confused. Can anyone explain the chiropractor bit? Do churches have a mission statement? How does newchurch handle addictions and relapses?
davidbmc Said:
January 23, 2008 @ 8:36 am
Stacey-surprised in a good way or a bad way? Just curious.
I’m not the one to explain the video cuz, honestly, I didnt really get it either. Dana’s explanation helped though.
Newchurch’s mission statement is Loving God and Loving You. It comes from the book of Matthew where Jesus was asked what the greatest commandment was, and he responded to the love God with all your heart, soul and strength and to love your neighbor as yourself. That’s what we try to do. Though as with all mission statements, we often fall short.
Newchurch handles addictions and relapses by encouraging people to be in a support group and encouraging them in their recovery. We also recognize that relapses happen and when they do the best thing to do is just get back on the wagon and start over. There are also times when professional counseling is needed and we try to point people in the right direction during those times.
Dwight Said:
January 23, 2008 @ 8:49 am
Why, oh, why doesn’t YouTube have this wonderful video that you speak of???
Sarah Said:
January 23, 2008 @ 9:28 am
Oh, dear…where to begin?
David:
First of all, I hope I didn’t get you in trouble with anything I’ve said. (And for the record everyone, David never said anything about the music being creepy. He simply knew my feelings about this type of church music, and warned me accordingly.)
I hope it didn’t sound like I was insulting your brother or any of the other musicians. I thought they were just fine…the lyrics are what bug me, not the performers. And speaking of the lyrics, you mentioned something about “code” words. Care to explain? I’m intrigued. What am I missing?
As for the diversity issue, I understand your point, and I figured that I probably didn’t get a comprehensive view of NewChurch from attending only one of the three services. None of the other churches I’ve attended so far have been particularly diverse, either…so this isn’t a complaint leveled solely at NewChurch.
Finally, it’s not just the announcements that bother me…I noticed on the website that there are separate “women’s ministries” and “men’s ministries.” Why the segregation by gender?
Tommy:
My philosophy behind the whole church-hopping thing has not been to be the Snarky, Self-Satisfied Atheist looking to make fun of religious people. This is a project I’ve undertaken to help me better understand those who I have sometimes had a hard time understanding. I believe that the best way to grow as a person is to seek out those who differ from you, and I’m genuinely curious about what other people think and believe. I also find it interesting to visit different churches and compare and contrast their styles, their beliefs, etc. Along the way, I’ve heard from a few church people who have found an outsider perspective to be interesting, as well.
Frankly, I think we’d all be a lot better off if we made more of an effort to engage those with other points of view, even if we disagree. That’s what I’m attempting to do, in my own small, stupid little way. If these posts can start a little discussion about our differences and similarities, then I’m thrilled. I promise you…it’s not my intention to offend, and I’m sorry if I’ve come across as being overly judgmental.
With that being said, I’m not the kind of person who’s afraid of pointing out things that I find confusing or troublesome. If I disagree with something, I’m going to say so.
I could have been a little more balanced in my post and pointed out the good things I found at NewChurch. Your facility is very nice, and everyone I came in contact with was most pleasant. I think churches like NewChurch provide a social outlet, a community of sorts, that many people find comforting. I can certainly appreciate that. And even though the service wasn’t up my alley, I suspect that with larger churches like NewChurch, most of the real stuff happens in smaller groups (which there seem to be quite a few of). I’d be interested to hear more about what these groups are like. Are they really as gender-segregated as it appears from the announcements and the website? What happens in these groups? Are there lively debates, or is everyone pretty much in agreement about everything? These are all things I would love to know, and was unable to find out from one brief visit.
I appreciate everyone’s comments.
The Immortal Said:
January 23, 2008 @ 9:34 am
Hey Sarah! I’m a NEWCHURCH member. I’m glad you hopped to us and I’m even more excited about your feedback. I wish all our visitors had blogs! Sometimes when we put our head down and work, we get a little myopic and lose site of the bigger picture. It’s great to get a wider perspective from a different view.
Your blog is greatly appreciated. I’d just like to help clarify a few things.
TUNES
Atypical. I was cracking up about your comment on the music. I was telling someone Sunday that the music was very different for our church. Our music leader just had a baby and family is extremely important to us, so he was busy with the new daddy role. It usually has more of a contemporary edge (kind of a soft rock feel). Personally, I’d prefer something harder, but for a large group with a wide range of tastes, it seems to work. I think four of the six songs we did Sunday were re-arranged hymns (and we usually have only one or none of those).
FLICK
Good call. The film about the chiropractor giving away a Bible that eventually helped his patient’s addict son was a little bizarre and difficult to follow. I understood it, but there was more than once that I realized I had an eyebrow raised. I feel a little less stupid knowing I wasn’t alone.
DIVERSITY
I think you’ll find that NEWCHURCH’s ethnic demographic is about the same as that in the area. It’s hard to tip the diversity scale beyond the immediate surrounding area. If you have some suggestions, we’d love to hear them. (That’s not sarcastic. I love new ideas.)
FOR STACY
NEWCHURCH has a recovery group that specifically deals with addictions. Right now, we’re going through a teaching series together as a church that points out that we ALL have hurts, habits, and hang-ups that can benefit from the same curative measures as any addiction. Also, NEWCHURCH does have a mission statement. Check out the website http://www.NEWCHURCH.tv and click the “About Us” link to get a handle on our mission, purpose and what we believe.
Thanks for your honest opinions!
Scott Mc Said:
January 23, 2008 @ 10:30 am
Hey Sarah,
Yes, I agree. I would like a sign as well. It is a huge topic around here. This area was zoned differently than most when it was originally built & I am currently working on getting it changed. I could go on all day about the trouble & problems we have run into on this issue but I will just say someday we will have one.
By the way, I am the Business Administrator here at the church, as well as David’s brother who sings songs that don’t make sense. Ha, ha! I am just glad that you didn’t say I couldn’t sing my way out of a paper bag. As for the particular line in the song that made you laugh, allow me to inturpret my definition of that line. “Like the fragrance after the rain” The title of the song is There is just something about that name. Meaning Jesus’ name. It is only a reference to a sense we all have when we step outside after a good rain & take a breath & smell that great fresh air. No, I am not for sure what kind of cologne Jesus wears but that smell makes me happy. The name of Jesus to me, just saying it gives me a sense of strenght & comfort because He is my Savoir. It is just another way to convey a recognizable, tangable thing we can all relate to & utilize it in way that makes since, or at least I thought it did.
I am also not real fond of some of the music these days myself they are sometimes hard to understand & relate to. I do my best to pick out music when I am asked to lead that I feel speaks to my heart because I feel I can convey them better that way. I like to sing a song I feel rather than one I don’t.
I am very glad you came & I appreciate anyone who has constructive critisism. Even though at times it is hard to take. If it is constructive & given to better someone elses expeirience, I am all for it.
Please come & join us again anytime. I would love to meet you as well.
ps. I will let Dave respoond to the “code words ” thing. He likes that sort of stuff.
Sarah Said:
January 23, 2008 @ 10:55 am
Okay. Let’s talk a little more about the music for a second. First of all, Scott, you guys were great. You’re not going to hear any complaints from me on the talent. I think my problem with the songs is that they all kind of seem like love songs one might hear addressed to a male or a female, but instead, they’re addressed to Jesus. That’s what creeps me out a little. It kind of seems like one is expressing what some might consider “romantic love” for Jesus. Maybe it just bugs me because I was raised to view God and Jesus as more of the “father figure” type, not the “boyfriend” type. I understand that the purpose of these songs is to praise Jesus and God, I guess I just prefer (both aesthetically and thematically) the traditional hymns. And what could praise God more than one of Bach’s fugues?
I’m not trying to insult your music, I’m just trying (badly) to explain why it’s not my cup of tea. If that’s what people like, that’s fine. I like a lot of music that other people don’t.
Now, for the diversity thing. The more I think about it, the more I think that may have been an unfair charge, because I don’t necessarily know what you could do to change it. That part of OKC is pretty homogenous anyway (like “The Immortal” mentioned) and you’re clearly not going to have religious diversity, because, well, you’re a Christian church. Probably not a lot of non-Christians are going to show up (aside from the random Atheist interloper). Besides…diversity can manifest itself in ways other than ethnicity and religion. I’m sure you have members with vastly differing political views and outlooks on life, right?
Scott Mc Said:
January 23, 2008 @ 12:12 pm
it’s me again Sarah,
In your words,
“Okay. Let’s talk a little more about the music for a second. First of all, Scott, you guys were great. You’re not going to hear any complaints from me on the talent.”
I just had to see it again. The buzz around here from you comments made there way quickly to my office. They were giving me a hard time so I thought I would share that part with them as well. I want to thank you for the kind words, on behalf of the hard working band & myself.
I think you are correct with your comments. More so on the next thing you wrote about the “love song” thing. I can totally see your point it would be creepy to someone who self admittedly is not a follower of Christ to know the relationship of someone who is. I in no way shape or form mean that in a mean or hurtful way. I understand your point & agree with it. I hope you can understand mine. I am in love with God because He gave His Son for me. It is a strange relationship because no else has ever done that for me. I can’t explain it any other way than just that. The love & gratefulness I have to Him is indescribable & the songs we sing come out in a grateful & loving way.
It does sound kind of strange to me as well. But if someone gave their life in place of yours, would you feel differently towards that person than you do someone else that you just know as a good friend but has never done anything overly great for you?
That I do mean as a real question & not a statement.
Side note: I just remembered a time I was asked to sing at a valentine’s banquet for a large organization several years ago. I did the concert of all secular material “love songs”. I felt so weird singing them because my wife was there but not where I could see her. I was singing these love songs to a group of people that I didn’t love or even really know. It was the most awkward thing I have ever done. That was creepy to me. I can see your point but can only say it is a relationship that unless you have you may not ever be able to understand it.
Ps. I don’t know how country artists can do their job.
Scott Mc Said:
January 23, 2008 @ 12:40 pm
I forgot,
Stacey I am curious as to what you mean by
“I am surprised by the feedback given from this church. This is the first I’ve seen of this type of response.
Good Suprize or a bad one?
Thanks Scott
Susan Manning Said:
January 23, 2008 @ 1:15 pm
Hi Sarah,
I am glad you are church hopping, it shows you are searching.
I want to share what New Church and turning my life over to God means to me.
I was diagnosed with a terminal disease this past year. I am unable to speak clearly, dress myself, drive, etc. I am powerless, and God has provided graciously.
I have ladies and men praying for healing, they come pick me up and take me places, they love me and my family warts and all.
This is my church which God provided, who will see me through.
Come back and let GOD do it for you.
Giving GOD the Glory,
Susan
Stacey Said:
January 23, 2008 @ 1:17 pm
Hey there, Scott. It’s nice to talk to a name rather than the ominous sounding “Immortal.” I get the connection, but it’s as creepy to me as purity rings from fathers to daughters. All I meant was that Sarah and I have both done a good share of church hopping, albeit in different states and with different results. I was surprised at how… what’s the word I’m looking for?… abundant were the responses. Sarah is the word master, not I, but it was nice to see a church rallying behind its reputation in a positive and verbose way. Not that you were on the defensive, in fact, it seemed as though you understood Sarah’s reasons for hopping. I can’t say that many, if any, of the houses of worship I’ve visited have welcomed ME back after discovering my atheism. I was surprised, in a good way.
So, while I’m writing, let me add my two cents about CCM and romantic Jesus love. At some of the advertised “contemporary” churches (see Cool Church in Tucson, AZ), I have witnessed Jesus-metal, Jesus Hip-hop and Jesus punk rock musical performances. If one is in love with God because of his sacrifice, how does that turn into musicians expressing “boyfriend” feelings towards him? I would think more reverential music would be apropos.. as if I were to write a song to Nelson Mandela, or another hero who sacrificed. I would say, “Good Job” instead of “get close to me.” Then again, my mantra this year has been, “what do I know?”
davidbmc Said:
January 23, 2008 @ 2:22 pm
Hi Stacey-glad to know it’s a good surprise!
‘d love to be in more on these conversations but i’m swamped at work today. I’d like to chime in on a couple things though.
1-As far as singing a song for Nelson Mandela, I think a “good job” song would be perfectly appropriate. But if Mandela had to choose between his son and me and was willing to allow his son to die so i could live, “good job” would seem a little inadequate. “How deep and high and wide is your love” might more express my gratitude.
That said-I am really on the fence on this one. I understand the “I love Jesus” attitude of the songs and when done in a certain way with certain words I can sing those songs. But I have found a lot of the newer songs to be odd myself. We sing a song alot that I cannot sing without laughing thru, “Draw me close to you, never let me go…” I get what it’s saying, but still…
2. Code words-I don’t mean that in a secret society decoder ring handshake kinda way-just that Christianity has certain buzzwords kinda like business does. Stephen Covey talks about “paradigm shifts” in the 7 Habits of Highly Effective People so that gets tossed about in business (at least it did back in the 80′s) and we talk about redemption, sanctification, glory, and so forth. In relation to the worship songs, when we use words like “passion” and so forth they have a different connotation, obviously than when used on a date. That’s all I meant.
3. I’m glad we aren’t coming off as defensive. I know almost everyone who has posted and if I know their hearts they are enjoying the dialogue. Which is really cool since that was the whole purpose of Sarah’s church-hopping experience. Also-personally I’d like to say that in “explaining” ourselves I dont want to come across like Sarah’s views and perceptions weren’t valid. She experienced what she experienced and we can’t deny that. But as she said, maybe this opens up some dialogue, or trialogue, or quadralogue, or…
Tommy Woodard Said:
January 23, 2008 @ 5:05 pm
Hey Sarah,
I just wanted to say thanks again for your comments. They have challenged me and encouraged me. The more I read from you, your friends, and our church members, the more excited I am about things. How great it is to look at things from different perspectives and learn from each other.
Scott Mc Said:
January 23, 2008 @ 5:10 pm
Hey I’m back,
I was out for a bit & David responded before I could. I think he did a good job so I’ll leave it there.
Stacey, thanks for the thoughts.
He mentioned how well everyone has responded. I was actually thinking about that as well while I was in the car a minute ago & want to say as well, thank you for opening up our eyes to some issues that we can address to better serve our community & the attenders here at Newchurch. I do love the dialog & the things discussed have been just that. No hard feelings just people expressing thier opinions & non-offensivley, but with honesty. I can go for that all day. I still hope that you would come & join us agian. I like to be around people that can carry on a conversation with tact. Those kinds of people are few & far between. That was me being honest.
Elizabeth Said:
January 23, 2008 @ 9:33 pm
Since I was outed as Sarah’s church-hopping buddy at NewChurch, I thought I’d add some of MY own comments. My church/religious viewpoint probably is from the opposite end of the spectrum from Sarah having been involved with church pretty much since the day I was born. I’ve also been to or attended roughly 100 different churches throughout my life. Nondenominational, interdenominational, Baptist, Catholic, Presbyterian, Nazarene, Black, White, contemporary, traditional, blended, in a cathedral, in a refugee camp, etc etc… I think I’ve seen a broad spectrum. I previously had left a comment on the May ’07 post “Questions for the Religious Right” with some of my general thoughts & beliefs. So, knowing a little bit about where I’m coming from, here are my impressions:
Music: It was what I would expect from a church like NewChurch. Contemporary just isn’t everyone’s cup of tea. I’m ok with all kinds of music and I’ve heard Christian music all my life, so I would say I’m used to it. I only wish more of the congregation would actually sing… but that is true of many churches.
Signage: Oh so important as Sarah mentioned. If there is any possible way to display that “this” is where NewChurch is, it should be done. Have people wave signs by the road for 15 minutes before each service, get a sawhorse and put up a “turn here for NewChurch” sign just for Sunday morning by the road, etc.
Diversity: To me it’s not just about the bulletin. What I am about to say is probably true about 90% of OK churches. When you go to the staff page on the church website, the only two women shown are those involved with children’s ministries. I don’t know if NewChurch has an official policy about women in pastoral leadership positions, but judging from the website it would make me think twice about ever deciding to attend there regularly. But women in leadership is a particularly important issue to me.
Also, within a 5 mile radius of NewChurch, I know there are fairly large Latino, Black & Asian communities. Within this same circle, there is also a wide range of socioeconomic differences. I only know what I saw in the couple hours I was there, but I didn’t see this kind of diversity represented.
From some of the work I have done dealing with diversity, I know that if diversity is a goal (of course, it has to be a goal to begin with), then it is often necessary to oversample diverse individuals from the population and put them in leadership roles in order to promote diversity.
Message: I thought the topic was significant but I have a difficult time thinking of any one specific thing that made a distinct impression on me. That may say more about me and how well I listen though!
So now bring on the wolves! Or I mean… sheep… or something?
HDRoadKing Said:
January 23, 2008 @ 9:59 pm
Hi Sarah,
I am also one of the pastor’s at NEWCHURCH and have enjoyed the blog as well. Through my years in ministry I have been a Youth Pastor, Worship Leader, Senior Adult Pastor (that was hilarious) and now a staff pastor here at NEWCHURCH and found your comments and thoughts enlightening to me and with most of the comments I just sit and nod in agreement or understanding. I won’t belabor any of the points made but want to thank you for taking note of us. We aren’t perfect, that’s for sure, but like Tommy said, we do the best we can. I have never served in or attended any church that is like this church, ever. The thing that sets it apart is the love of it’s people. David knows us very well and has a knack for explaining things and a great knowledge of truth. I think we are all in recovery…lol…anyone agree? Thanks, have a great day.
Bob Miller
p.s.-we need a sign.
Sarah Said:
January 24, 2008 @ 8:26 am
For the record, I raised in the Catholic Church by my very devout mother. Just wanted to point out that I haven’t been a heathen my whole life!
Elizabeth makes some great points, and adds a lot of substance that I failed to. She also makes some terrific suggestions about increasing diversity and female/minority leadership that I would urge NewChurch to consider.
I had no idea that NW OKC was that diverse. I figured it was pretty Edmond-ish in its demographics. Shows what I know!
Scott Mc Said:
January 24, 2008 @ 9:07 am
I’m back,
I have to confess something right now. I have never blogged before in my life. I really don’t have the time. Yesterday I just had to have a little fun before I went crazy, & the topics we in my area of concern. I really enjoyed it & still am as I type this note (blog). See I don’t even know the terms or “CODE WORDS”.
I appreciate the comments again & the observations.
I am about to make a sign up list for people to volunteer to hold the Newchurch sign at the entrance before each service. The only requirement is you have to take an ipod with you & play your favorite music with your earphones & dance like the guy that use to be at the corner of 50th & Meridian holding the Little Ceasars sign. I dig that guy. I think he was listening to “Draw me close to you, Neverlet me go” & one of my favorites “Jesus, Like the fragrance after the rain”.
Seriously, we need a sign. We know that. It is a current issue that actually should have been taken care of a long time ago. Like Tommy says sometimes around here we love this place because we care for & about people more than we do about having the latest greatest equiptment & things. Don’t get me wrong we don’t want to let the place look like a dump. Although sometimes it does because we try to do so much with the building & don’t give ourselves ample time to reclean or maintain ourselves. WE would rather spend 10k to 40k on people that are in need rather than on a sign that tells people where we are. We are probably wrong in thought process at times on that but to date at least about 1500 people seem to find us every week. Again I think we need a sign. Zoning is an issue that I am taking on. By the way we do have a rather large banner at the corner of Britton & Rockwell that does say Newchurch. That was an issue as well a few months ago thanks to the CITY of OKC. But we are in compliance & want to follow the rules & we will.
Does anyone care about this other than me? ***Just at me I am a blogging king***
Said all that to say this I am going to sign off now because my desk is full. I will be reading your blog Sarah because it is an honest opinion with tact. I think you & your friends have good points. Although we may disagree on Christian beliefs I would hope you will consider me a friend as well. I will you. Keep bloggin’ keep hoppin’ but feel free to come hop & stay a while here at Newchurch. We may just rub off on you.
I will be reading & if someone wants my opinion rattle my cage by saying my name & I will apear.
Stay safe & search for truth. Scott
Jennifer Ashford Said:
January 24, 2008 @ 1:31 pm
Hey, I just wanted to comment about females in leadership at Newchurch. We have 2 female pastors. Katie and Amber and they are both awesome.
As for what happens in small groups, well, that depends on what small group you go to. I have really only been involved in 2 in my many years at the church, but both have included both men and women. One I help lead (yo, I am a female) and one is led by only a guy.
The one I am helping with is for fat folks and there really isn’t any opportunity to disagree. I mean, if you are in there you are likely fat and should eat less and exercise. I don’t anticipate any debate, but wouldn’t stop it if it came up. The other one though, is all about what we believe and why. It is a very open format and while the views are not as different as night and day, a lot of very open conversations have taken place. I know my views have shifted as a result of sharing that time with others. If you want to really get into what we believe, you should come to that – it’s on Sunday mornings during 2nd service.
Marcia Said:
January 24, 2008 @ 3:25 pm
Hey guys. I just wanted to touch on a couple of subjects that have been brought up here. My main role at NEWCHURCH is in the children’s ministry and I do felt led to share that the reason why I work in children’s ministry is not because of a stereotypical, because I am a woman and that is my place dealing with the babies and kids-stand point. Statistically, most people who will make a decision in their lives to follow after Jesus and give their lives to Him comes before that person reaches the age of 12 and then there is another statistical break at age 18. Most children have a really open mind and don’t have a lot of the hang ups with faith. The Bible even refers to having a child-like faith. So, I love working with kids because they are so open, honest, and just ready to learn and can really accept Jesus’ love with that child-like faith. So, I find it to be an honor to get to be one of the people who get to be involved with that voyage with them. And we have A LOT of fun in the meantime!! I see these same traits in the two women who lead our children’s and preschool areas here at NEWCHURCH. They are both well educated, compassionate, and driven women who are involved in children’s ministry and preschool ministry not because it is the PC thing to do, but because they have a passion for kids and they genuinely care about every child who comes through our doors, if we have them for a day, a month, or from the time they are born until we send them on their way to the youth group.
And on the subject of diversity, I know that it has been acknowleged that you can’t get a real feel for the people who attend our church regularly and the cultural/social/ethnic breakdown of those people from coming just one Sunday to third service. But I would invite you to come and peek in on our Wednesday night program that we are running right now. There is definitely a cross section of kids that are attending and we are so excited about that. We are constanting looking for ideas that will show our neighbors that we genuinely want them to attend our church, that they are welcome here, and we want it to be an environment that they would truly enjoy and be able to discover Jesus for themselves. If you ever want to come and see what we are doing with the kids, just come upstairs and ask for Katie or Marcia and we would love to let you take a look around.
When I found out about your visit last Sunday, I was genuinely excited to hear your opinion of our church. I think it is great to have our temperature taken from time to time and find out what newcomers really think of our church and what kind of impression is being made. Thanks for taking the time to “find” us!
Marcia
Stacey Said:
January 24, 2008 @ 3:54 pm
Ohh, I tried to hold my tongue. Marcia, there is a reason why children are convinced of Santa and the tooth fairy. It’s faith in whatever you are taught, not faith for faith’s sake. When a horse pictures Jesus in his head, Jesus looks like a horse.
I hope I didn’t derail our awesome discussion.
Marcia Said:
January 24, 2008 @ 6:39 pm
I had a feeling I was going to open a can of worms with my comments. I really don’t want to derail the conversation that was going on because there are a lot of great comments being made. And the topic of faith and what children believe and why they believe it is a completely different subject and we could debate that for hours!
I will leave it alone and end it with only saying that a big part of what we really want the kids to get from their experience at NEWCHURCH is that even at their young age, their relationship with Jesus is a personal thing. We don’t want them to just follow their parent’s religion. We want them to develop their own relationship with Jesus so that they understand not only what they believe but why they believe it. I just wanted to explain the reasons I am involved in children’s ministry beyond the stereotypical reasons women work in children’s and preschool ministry. 
davidbmc Said:
January 27, 2008 @ 2:17 pm
i just want to say that i dont do childrens ministry because i cant stand all the screaming kids.
Two-Headed Blog » Harvest Church Said:
February 4, 2008 @ 12:36 pm
[...] of which – I also noticed that, as with NewChurch, the Ministries are separated into Men’s Ministries and Women’s Ministries. Could someone [...]